Episode 148 | The Challenges Of Being Pro-Life

[Intro with Music]:

Sometimes controversial, always politically incorrect, and pro-life without exception, without compromise, and without apology. It’s the Pro-Life America podcast with your hosts, Sarah Waites and the president of Life Dynamics, Mark Crutcher.

Sarah: Welcome back to the Pro-Life America podcast, everyone. I’m your host, Sarah Waites, and I’m joined, as usual, by my co-host and Mark’s daughter, Sheila Crutcher. Hey, Sheila.

Sheila: Hi, everyone.

Sarah: Again, we just want to give a preface of if you hear some clattering in the background, we have a silent, doggy co-host in the background who may contribute by dropping his dog bone in support.

(sound of bone dropping)

Sarah: Just like that. (laughs)

Sheila: Like he just did. I don’t know if the mics picked it up.

Sarah: We don’t know if that picked it up or not, but that was him. Well, we want to do something a little different this week, instead of just talking about news, and talk about something that’s more about our lives as pro-lifers. I asked people who follow us on social media to tell us what they thought the hardest part about being pro-life is. Not that necessarily being pro-life is a chore or anything of that nature, but…

Sheila: No. But I mean, there are some hard aspects to it in this society, of course.

Sarah: Absolutely. Just like anything else in life. You know, we have our struggles, our ups and downs.

Sheila: Mm hmm. Just because it’s the right thing, doesn’t mean you aren’t going to have issues or, you know, struggles. I mean, even the Bible talks about the narrow path and the struggles that you’ll have because you are doing the right thing, because you’re following the right path.

Sarah: So we’ve compiled, kind of, a list of things that were things that people online suggested – and thank you so much for the people online who follow us who responded to this – and some of these are things that we have noticed ourselves.

Sheila: Well, for me, the hardest thing is, you know, my dad being a pro-life leader and growing up always being a pro-life. It’s frustrating because you’re like, why can’t people just be pro-life?

Sarah: It shouldn’t be hard. Yeah.

Sheila: No. I mean, how hard is it not to support the killing of babies? And so it’s frustrating and hard when the people you can’t win over, because there are, no matter how good your argument is, no matter how sound it is, there are going to be people that you can’t win over.

Sarah: I can’t imagine growing up in it. But the hardest thing for me about being pro-life, was the revelation that our biggest enemy in this fight is not really the abortion industry – it’s indifference.

Sheila: Mm hmm.

Sarah: And I want people to let that sink in for a minute because, the reason why legalized abortion has been able to survive in this country is because people allow it. It is the indifference of the population who mistakenly believes that abortion has no bearing on their life. They don’t see, not only the pain and everything that it causes for the people who are involved with it, but the after effects that it causes for everybody.

Sheila: I mean, that’s just like the indifference in the Holocaust with the Nazis, and the indifference with slavery.

 Sarah: Yeah, and it’s the indifference of politicians who look for any reason to not get involved.

Sheila: Mm hmm.

Sarah: And for people who are Christians out there, the indifference of the church – not only a body of people who know that it is the deliberate killing of the innocent and defenseless babies created by God – but, so many times, you hear in churches talking about how the devil getting a hold of people’s lives and causing all this pain. Look at the destruction that abortion wreaks on people’s lives. If you don’t see Satan in that, then I don’t know where you see Satan at all.

Sheila: Mm hmm, exactly. My dad would always say that abortion clinics are the entrance to hell on earth.

Sarah: What do you think would have been the hardest thing for your dad about being pro-life? I’m gonna share what I think it was. Do you have a thought about what you think it was?

Sheila: Probably knowing that there are going to be some babies that wouldn’t be able to be saved.

Sarah: Yeah, I think you’re right about that. I think for him, the big thing was knowing that no matter what he did – there were still going to be babies who cannot be saved. The thing that kind of struck me was how his being involved in the pro-life issue, affected his attitudes about many other things. In fact, he wrote about this deal that, in 1987, there was an 18-month-old girl who fell into a well in Midland, Texas.

Sheila: Mm hmm.

Sarah: And it was around the clock news coverage of trying to get the girl out, volunteers came to help, people sent money, people sent digging machines – and two days later, they were actually able to get this girl out of the well. Everybody cheered and celebrated. And he said, “but the full joy of that moment would be denied to me, because I was also thinking about the thousands of nameless babies who were aborted during the 58 hours Jessica was trapped. For them, there were no lights, no cameras, and no reporters – there was only pain and anonymous death. I imagine these babies watching the heroic efforts being made to save this one child and asking, ‘What about us?'”

Sheila: Right, and I mean, abortion always overshadowed everything in his life. It was like a hanging shadow. And I mean, he would say that he didn’t dream anymore – good or bad – he just didn’t since, you know, being involved in ending abortion.

Sarah: Yeah. I think one of the hardest things about being pro-life, for people who are really involved in the issue and those who are not as involved in the issue, and that’s how to successfully argue the pro-life position. Because effectively defending the pro-life position, often means that we have to discuss biology, medicine, law, philosophy, morality. Meanwhile, the pro-choice side only has to parrot off something like, “Oh, I don’t like abortion. I think it’s horrible, but I don’t have the right to make that decision for others.” Or “I can’t impose my views on somebody else.” That’s all you have to say, and that’s it.

Sheila: All pro-abortion people have to do is regurgitate the one sentence talking points from Planned Parenthood, and the abortion industry, and even the mass media. Like the mass media will say, you know, “my body, my choice,” and that’s all they have to say to defend their position.

Sarah: Yeah, absolutely. Another thing is, and I’m sure listeners out there can appreciate this, and I know Sheila, you and I have talked about this. How many times have we sat down, just wanting to decompress from everything going on, and we turn on our favorite TV show or turn on a movie, and there’s more and more abortion storylines in these shows and movies – even going so far as to like praise abortion at times.

Sheila: Well, I mean, they’re using popular media and stuff to try to push the abortion narrative. And they’re trying their hardest to make abortion just seem normal, like an everyday thing. I mean, what’s really big right now is the commercials for Plan B on streaming services.

Sarah: Yeah.

Sheila: Like, we’re subscribed to several streaming services, and on each one we’ve seen the Plan B commercial just like time, and time, again.

Sarah: Even a Planned parenthood commercial popping in now and then.

Sheila: Yeah, and it’s just blatant lies. But they can get away with it, so there’s going to be even more of that in the future.

Sarah: Well, speaking of blatant lies, it’s not just that they have storylines involving abortion, but there’s a number of shows where they’ll go so far as to demonize pregnancy resource centers, make them off as kooks or people who lock women in rooms until they get them to keep their babies. Long before I ever became pro-life, I remember watching one of my favorite shows and it was this kind of storyline, like a woman who’s pregnant and she goes to what she thinks is a medical provider and it turns out to be a pregnancy resource center. They lock this woman in a room and shove the sonogram in her face. And, “you can’t kill your baby!” And all this kind of stuff. And I thought,“man, I can’t believe there are people out there like that.” Of course, I’m a teenager. I don’t know any better, right? But if you think that these kind of things in there are just to make them feel all warm and fuzzy inside, it’s not. Like they’re looking for naive teenagers, like I was, to show them these are the pro-lifers out there.

Sheila: They’re just pushing their agenda.

Sarah: And no matter how many you have, it’s not enough for them. We have a whole episode where we talk about this – and you actually joined us on the show. It’s episode 68, and I’ll put the link in the description. We talk about different examples, and we talk about the “Abortion Surveillance Report,” in television and movies, where they moan about how, “Oh, we’ve got this increase, but it’s still not enough.” And, “Oh, you know what? We don’t have somebody who’s non-binary who’s having an abortion, and we really need to have that in there.”

Sheila: Yeah.

Sarah: So no matter what you do, it’s not enough for them.

Sheila: No, there’s a whole like childless movement now that’s on the internet.

Sarah: Really?

Sheila: Like child free and stuff. And it’s because of narratives like this. They’re making children and out to be little hell-spawns or whatever, that, you know, will ruin your life. Like how motherhood is so bad for women.

Sarah: How motherhood is a burden that keeps women down.

Sheila: And that it’s bad for society, blah, blah, blah. And so now they’re not only making abortion seem good, but making motherhood and children seem bad as well.

Sarah: I think another thing that’s hard sometimes about being pro-life, is how it affects relationships. I’ve known people who lost friends, and even some family members, the closeness because of being pro-life.

Sheila: I grew up with this, so for me it’s different. It’s not about losing friends, it’s about not being able to make the friends. Cause like, for me, it’s why would you want to be friends with someone who’s pro-abortion in the first place. So it’s not like, oh you become friends with somebody and then oh, well, we disagree on the abortion issue, so we’re no longer friends.

Sarah: Your opinions and views on things shift over time – either through life experience, knowledge, that sort of thing. So you could be friends with somebody and your position change, or you could be friends with somebody and it never come up and you don’t know. But now, the way things are, you don’t have as many people being friends with people from the opposite side of the issue. There’s even some people who have lost friends because they’re not liberal or conservative, Republican or Democrat.

Sheila: Yes, I think nowadays that’s kind of like more of an upfront thing before getting into friendships, and relationships, and stuff. That’s like a criteria making thing right up front.

Sarah: Working here at Life Dynamics, we’ve heard people reach out to us and say, you know, “I’m trying to educate or convert my friend, my sister, my cousin twice removed” – whatever it may be about abortion. And they’re like, “what can I say to make them change their mind?” And I always tell people, you’re going to have to accept the possibility that you cannot change their mind. That’s not to say that you don’t have discussions. But when you go into discussion, you have to go into the discussion knowing and accepting ‘I may never change their opinion.’

Sheila: Right.

Sarah: And just go into having a discussion. But if you make it this win lose thing, not only are you not going to convert them, but if you’re not okay with it, you might drive them out of your life.

Sheila: You have to look at it like the mustard seed, like in the Bible.

Sarah: Oh, absolutely.

Sheila: Planting that mustard seed. And you know, that little grain can grow into something big.

Sarah: Yeah. But at some point, like I say, you have to accept the possibility that you may not be. And if that doesn’t happen, what does that mean for your relationship with that person?

Sheila: And you have to go into that, knowing that at the very beginning.

Sarah: Yeah. So speaking about relationships, when we asked this question on social media, one of the people who followed us said that the hardest thing for them about being pro-life was knowing that their now ex-wife aborted their third child six years into the marriage, and there was nothing he could do to halt the unforgivable process.

This is an important time to urge people – I don’t care whether you’re dating or whether you’re engaged – you need to ask anybody that you think you’re going to become involved with – you need to know what their views about abortion are. Because that’s gonna have an impact on your relationship, what happens if there’s an unplanned pregnancy – if you’re in that situation. Or, we’ve seen so many people being pressured and coerced by their doctors to have abortions.

Sheila: Right. And we’ve had guys call into the office saying, “hey, my girlfriend or my wife, she wants to have an abortion. I want to know what I can do.”

Sarah: The answer is nothing.

Sheila: Yeah, and my dad would always say that know their opinion on abortion.

Sarah: Yeah.

Sheila: Because once a woman is pregnant, it’s too late to be like, “Oh, hey, what do you think about abortion?”  Because if they’re for abortion, then they’re gonna have an abortion. Well, it’s too late.

Sarah: Well, and similarly, ladies, if you find yourself pregnant and then the guy starts pressuring you to have an abortion. You know, we have a report where, there are some men out there who were not willing to take no for the answer.

Sheila: Right.

Sarah: So you really need to know all this information ahead of time.

Sheila: Yeah, he may be pro-choice about you.

Sarah: Yeah. The other big thing that we saw from people online when we asked this question, is that they said that the hardest thing about being pro-life was the hate from the pro-choice side that they would receive, and the threats, and death wishes.

Sheila: You know, it doesn’t always win you popularity contests among, not only your peers, but people outside your peer group.

Sarah: One of the most interesting responses we got to this question was from Jeff on Facebook, who said, “it is difficult to believe how many people claim to be pro-life and are far from it.” And I think this is an interesting point.

We did an episode a while back about what it means to be pro-life. And there are a number of people who do not understand that the pro-life position, is that a living human being is created at the moment of fertilization; and that this new human being is entitled to have his or her life protected by the law – at every stage of development, and every situation – just like you and me.

But you’ll sometimes hear people claim to be pro-life while, at the same time, they say, “Oh, well, abortion should be illegal in every other situation, EXCEPT… abortion should be legal in the case of rape… abortion should be legal in the case of disability.” Go down the list.

 Sheila: Either the unborn or living human beings, or they aren’t.

Sarah: By definition, you can’t label someone as pro-life when they say that there’s certain groups of children that it should be legal to kill.

 Sheila: Right.

Sarah: That’s like saying, “I’m an abolitionist, but I believe that there are some circumstances in which it should be legal for people to own slaves.”

 Sheila: Mm hmm.

Sarah: It makes no sense. You’re either for or against it.

 Sheila: Mm hmm.

Sarah: But there’s something I kind of want to touch on, that’s kind of related to this. And I think one of the hard things about being pro-life is the infighting that we see on our side sometimes.

Sheila: I hate this. You’re going to have infighting, no matter what movement you’re in.

Sarah: Oh, absolutely. The pro-choice side has their own infighting and their beefs.

Sheila: Right.

Sarah: The pro-life infighting seems to center on legislation, you know, the whole pure, no compromise legislation and the incremental approach.

Sheila: And also around personalities.

Sarah: Yes. But the issue of legislation, has accused people of not being pro-life and it has also destroyed worthwhile pro-life initiatives.

Sheila: Right.

Sarah: And I know this was something that really aggravated your dad, and we had a number of discussions about. And I feel like he would want us to bring this up.

Sheila: Right.

Sarah: There is a difference between advocating legislation that would permit the legal killing of even one baby, versus supporting a bill that allows exceptions – with the possibility of coming back and getting more.

Sheila: Right.

Sarah: Because generally, there’s rarely a choice between passing a pure bill with no exceptions or passing a bill with exceptions.

Sheila: Right.

Sarah: In almost every case, the choice is between a bill with exceptions or no bill at all.

Sheila: Right. And I mean, our political system isn’t perfect. And the pro-life position is that we want abortion to be ended. We want every single unborn baby protected LEGALLY from abortion. Basically, a personhood amendment that we’re reaching for.

Sarah: Yeah, absolutely.

Sheila: But along the way, it’s not an all or nothing situation. Because if you have legislation that says, “oh, you know, no abortions after six weeks.” Well, that means that unborn babies before six weeks can still be killed.

Sarah: We’re not saying that we’re accepting that.

Sheila: No.

Sarah: We’re just saying, okay, we’re going to pass this now and then we’re going to come back.

Sheila: At this moment in time, this is the best we can do. So we are going to take this, right now…

Sarah: …and then we’re going to come back and try to save the rest.

Sheila: Mm hmm. Because at least it’ll save some, not all, some. And we’re going to keep on going until it saves all.

Sarah: To put an analogy on this, if anybody is sitting there saying, “No, no, no, no. You guys, you just don’t understand. You’re wrong.” I want you to imagine for a second that you’re standing on shore, and you see out in the lake or ocean a boat is going down, and it’s filled with people who cannot swim.

Sheila: Right.

Sarah: Imagine you’re standing there and somebody who has a boat says, “I could help them, but since I can’t save them all, I’m not going to go out there and save them.” Now, of course, nobody is going to be like, “oh, well, I’ll take a deal of all or none.” No, you’re going to say, “I’m going to go out there and I’m going to try to save as many as I can.”

Sheila: Right.

Sarah: “I may not be able to save all of them, but I’m going to work like heck to get as many as I can saved.”

Sheila: Right.

Sarah: That’s the deal with the legislation. You treat this as that boat. You’re going to save all that you can, but you’re going to keep coming back.

Sheila: Right. You want to save all of them.

Sarah: Absolutely.

Sheila: But you’re also not going to be standing on the shore twiddling your thumbs and thinking, “oh, man.”

Sarah: “Well, since I can’t save every single one, I’m just not going to try.”

Sheila: “Oh, man. It’s a shame I can’t save everybody.” You’re not going to be doing that. That’s ridiculous.

Sarah: Yeah.

Sheila: Every single life is precious. That’s why you save the ones that you can – at that particular moment in time – and then go forward trying to save them all.

Sarah: Anyway, this is just a number of things that we found were the hardest things about being pro-life. If you disagree with anything on this list, or if you think we’re crazy, ironically, we would love to hear it.

Sheila: Or if you have ones that you want to add.

Sarah: Yeah, if you have ones that you want to add too. If you will go to LifeDynamics.com/podcast, there’s a form right there on the page. But let us know what you think. If you think we’re crazy or if there’s something that we think we’ve forgotten. Let us know.

Sheila: Speaking of advice and suggestions, we need to make sure that we do From The Mouth Of Mark for this episode.

Sarah: Absolutely. We thought we would leave this on a positive note.

Sheila: Mm hmm. And this is from him, from Siege this time. And it goes, “You often hear it is said that living through adversity creates character and people, but that is not true. Hard times do not create character, they reveal it. And the character of the pro-life movement has been revealed many times, during many difficult years. From the beginning, our people have been abandoned by those they should have been able to count on, betrayed by those they trusted, ridiculed and demonized in the public square, and ignored by society in moral decay.

But through it all, even in times of relentless darkness, when there seemed to be no possibility of victory, they took the enemy’s best shots and stayed on their feet. And they did this without counting the cost, and with no expectation of personal gain. That resolve and inner strength symbolizes a kind of character that is neither fragile nor fleeting. It is instead the impenetrable foundation upon which the pro-life movement was built. And it will be there until the end.”

Sarah: Yeah, that’s right.

Sheila: Mm-Hmm.

Sarah: Absolutely.

Sheila: And I think that’s important going forward, because hard times are ahead. Just being truthful so…

Sarah: We just want to say that, if you’re one of the people out there who is finding yourself in one of those hard moments about being pro-life…

Sheila: …just focus on the goal and…

Sarah: …these times shall pass.

Sheila: And that you’re following the right moral path. So until next time, Life Dynamics is not here to put up a good fight.

Sarah: No, we’re here to win.

Sheila: Because winning is how the killing stops.

Sarah: Thank you for listening guys. See you next week.

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