Episode 161 | What Happens When Abortions Go Wrong

[Intro with Music]:

Sometimes controversial, always politically incorrect, and pro-life without exception, without compromise, and without apology. It’s the Pro-Life America podcast with your hosts, Sarah Waites and the president of Life Dynamics, Mark Crutcher.

Sarah: Welcome back to the Pro-Life America podcast. I’m your host, Sarah Waites, and I am joined by Mark’s daughter, my co-host, Sheila Crutcher. Hey Sheila.

Sheila: Hi.

Sarah: We have a really great topic and guest for you guys. I always love talking to this person. They have a unique perspective. And the theme of our show is what happens when abortions go wrong. Now, the pro-choice community would tell you that nothing ever goes wrong, that abortion is completely safe. But Troy Newman and Operation Rescue focus on exposing what the abortion industry is hiding about the safety of abortion. And joining us today is none other than Troy Newman. How are you, Troy?

Troy: I am blessed beyond belief and very excited to be on your podcast. Thank you so much.

Sarah: Well, we’re super glad to have you.

Sheila: Mm hmm. Hi!

Sarah: I can’t believe this is the first time that we’re having you in the time that we’ve had the podcast. (laughs)

Troy: Well, you know, the prophet lives without honor in his own hometown, right? So…

(laughter)

Sarah: Yeah, exactly.

Troy: We’re so familiar with each other, we’ve done LifeTalk so many times – and then you just forget me. I understand. It’s ok though.

(laughter)

Sarah: Killing us with kindness over there. Well, I kind of fell into the pro-life issue. And the things that I had been told about abortion, because I was one of those people that was in the middle – I was opposed to abortion but I had bought into this deal that some people are going to do it, right? And [mistakenly thought] there should be places open that can do this for them in a safe manner, and that these are professional entities that do this. And I just had no idea what crazy operations, with absolutely unqualified people [they were]. I had no idea that when things went wrong and they called 911, that they didn’t take it seriously.

Sheila: Uh huh. Well, a lot of people don’t know about how bad the abortion industry is because the media, government, and the abortion industry itself does everything that they can to cover up the issues.

Sarah: And one of the first things that when you worked at Life Dynamics, that Mark required, was that you read Lime 5. And the first chapter is called “Safe and Legal,” and it goes over all these injuries that can happen, and these vignettes of women and what they went through. And it’s just absolutely horrifying. I know that me, as well as other people, had nightmares about some of the stuff after reading that chapter.

Sheila: Mm hmm. Well, I mean, even some abortionists admit how bad abortion is. A example – a perfect example is Warren Hern, who in his own book, Abortion Practice, on page 101, wrote that, “Abortion is a simple procedure, except for the uterus total intolerance to poor technique. In the medical practice, there are few surgical procedures given so little attention, and so underrated in its potential hazard as abortion.” 

Sarah: And Troy, I’m sure you had interesting encounters with Hern. I know Mark did.

Troy: Oh, many, many. I’ve talked to him personally. You know, and one thing in regards to abortion or child killing – taking the baby out of the womb – it’s the only medical procedure done completely blind.

Sarah: Mm hmm.

Troy: So if they do open heart surgery or laparoscopic surgery, you know, they bring in a camera. You do a colonoscopy, everything’s done with a camera. The abortion is just sticking in the cannula, opening up the cervix, and then start just taking chunks out. And that’s why they have to have a nurse or, I say that – very, very rarely they do have a nurse.

Sarah: A receptionist. (laughs)

Troy: Yeah, they used to work at 7-Eleven. They got looped in at ten dollars an hour to come over and count the baby body parts. And that’s exactly what Norman McCorvey was hired to do. And so many other of our informants that have come out of the abortion industry said, ‘yeah, I was just hired to count the body parts. Whoops, I’m missing a leg.’ And oftentimes the abortionist doesn’t care, ‘oh it’ll pass’ and so forth. But it’s the only medical procedure that’s done completely blind. And so, it’s no wonder there’s so many complications.

Sarah: Oh, yeah.

Sheila: Which causes so many complications – and these are just a few: retained fetal parts -which could lead to septic infection and infertility, uterine scarring and perforation – which again can lead to infertility, fatal injuries, torn cervixes, and other collateral damages to other body parts.

Troy: Mm hmm.

Sarah: Anesthesia overdoses. You had something that you guys reported on, Troy, in February of last year. A woman had to be resuscitated during a 911 call. Apparently, the abortionist had overdosed the patient on Fentanyl and, I don’t even know how to pronounce the other one, but Midazolam – or whatever.

Troy: It happens more times than we can actually count. Again, we’re kind of looking into the abortion cartel, these abortion mills, from the outside looking almost through a dark glass. And the only time we get reports of women dying, women being injured is when we have some sort of external evidence. And usually that’s when the abortion cartel calls 911.

Sarah: Mm hmm.

Troy: And you see, it’s medical malpractice to start a procedure that you can’t repair an injury that you caused. Okay, so let’s just say you’re getting a colonoscopy. Every once in a while, that instrument actually will pierce a bowel, but it’s done in a hospital setting, so they can open you up and repair that torn colon. The abortion cartel, often operating in strip malls – I’ve seen one in old gas stations.

Sarah: Really?

Troy: The building that I’m speaking to you from right now is a closed abortion mill. And you wouldn’t have your nails done, ladies. You wouldn’t have, you know, those little eyelash things put on your eyes.

Sheila: Right. (laughs)

Sarah: Well, I wouldn’t normally anyway.

Troy: Oh, and the unsanitary conditions that were found here in this, I don’t even want to call it a clinic, this mill. And Mark Crutcher and I walked through here with a camera and documented the filth, the gore, the stained blood, the mold, the cockroaches, et cetera.

Sarah: And the creepy garbage disposal that they used to get rid of the parts.

Troy: I still have that garbage disposal. The nickname of the manufacturer of that garbage disposal was called, “the Bone Crusher.”

Sarah: Ugh.

Sheila: Hmm.

Troy: And so it’s no wonder that it was installed here at this abortion mill. But if I could just do one thing and back up, the title of this program is, “when abortions go wrong,” right?

Sarah: Yeah.

Troy: And let me set the stage here and say, number one, every abortion goes wrong.

Sheila: Mm hmm.

Sarah: Yeah.

Troy: Because every single one kills an innocent child.

Sarah & Sheila: Mm hmm. (in unison)

Troy: Every single time that abortion is done, a baby dies – and that is the most horrific thing that can happen.

Sarah: Absolutely.

Troy: I don’t even like calling it abortion because that’s clinical. You know, when Musk set off that rocket, the Falcon, a couple months ago. And what happened when it went wrong? They detonated it, they aborted the mission and they exploded [it]. That’s become a natural occurring thing in science, and so forth. There’s nothing natural about taking the life of a baby, while it’s thriving and growing and being nurtured in the exact way God designed, it or nature designed it – however you want to split hairs here. That baby is destined to be born, and it will do so given time and nutrition.

Sarah: Yeah.

Troy: But they intentionally go in and they abort that child’s life. They kill that baby. So that’s number one. And then number two, very, very often, we’ve actually got a website that we put up last year called Abortion911.

Sarah: Mm hmm.

Troy: And we make it our mission to go out and get the public records – these FOIA , the Freedom of Information Act, requests of these 911 calls. And you can go there, and you can hear one after another, after another, where these abortionists, they start a procedure, they cause a major complication, they cannot repair it and so they call 911. And they rush these poor girls to the hospital where the emergency room doctors are then left to patch up this botched abortion.

And what are some of the complications? I remember this abortionist, Bruce Steer in Moreno Valley, California, was operating on Sharon Hamplin, it’s a second trimester abortion, and the nurse, who turned out to be one of our informants later on, said that Bruce Steer exclaimed in the middle of the abortion, “Oh my God, I pulled a bowel!”

Sarah: Ugh.

Troy: Okay, so here this abortionist goes in with a medical instrument and pulls down, thinking what he has is maybe the baby’s arm or leg or head and instead he’s got a bowel that comes out of the woman. He says, “I’ve got a plane to catch,” pushes that bowel back in, shuffles her off into the car, and she dies on the way home from Reno Valley up to the high desert. Bruce Steer spent only six months in jail for manslaughter, but that was kind of the start of Operation Rescue’s mission to put these guys behind bars. And we’ve seen it time and time again.

Sarah: I don’t think people know how common it is for these other organs, that are close to the uterus, to wind up getting injured during an abortion. Because you get a uterine perforation from the clamps or suction, and so they go in for something and they pull and they could have the bowels or they could have another part of the body. And so all of a sudden, a woman not only has an injury to her uterus but could be looking at a colostomy bag or something else.

Troy: A huge, huge complication… You have to understand how the uterus works, it’s an organ in and of itself. And while the baby is growing inside, there’s a ton of blood rushing to that uterine wall.

Sarah & Sheila: Mm hmm.

Troy: Why? Because that’s where the baby’s placenta is implanted. So there’s major arteries going to that. And one complication that we see over and over again, is when that cannula or the suction device, as you said, goes in and it pierces a uterine artery. I mean, we know our arteries in our neck or our leg and so forth. You know how fast it is for someone to bleed out, and that’s what happens. Uncontrollable bleeding from a uterine artery causes death within just a few hours, if not moments, depending on how bad, and we’ve seen that time and time again. 

Sheila: Right. Tonya Reeves is a perfect example of that. You know, when she bled out in the hallway after an abortion.

Sarah: It’s not just that she got that injury. They knew she was bleeding, they wheeled her in a hallway –

Sheila: left her there.

Sarah: and left her for five hours, knowing the injury that she had and how it could be fatal.

Sheila: Right.

Troy: It begs the question, why? If they’re so concerned about women. You know, that’s what the abortion industry says, ‘women, women, women. It’s the most important thing in the whole world.’ No, my position is the most important thing for the abortion cartel is to kill the baby. They’re so anti-child, so anti-human, so ghoulish, so demonic that they’re more concerned with their own reputation.

Sarah: Oh, yeah.

Troy: Ok? Then they are with the life of the woman. Why did they just wheel Tonya over into a hallway? It’s because they were afraid to call the ambulance or to bring her to a doctor. I remember diamond Phillips was wheeled in a wheelchair, after a two hour abortion where she was left screaming and yelling. Finally, put in a wheelchair and wheeled down two blocks to the local emergency room by Stephen Brigham and Nicola Riley, the two abortionists there in Maryland, and just left there. ‘Hey, we can’t do anything with her. Here you go!’ And she almost died. Fortunately, the emergency room had the wherewithal to get a helicopter and they rushed her over to –

Sarah: – a trauma center I’m sure.

Troy: – Mayo Clinic trauma center. Yeah. And a lot of times these women need, you know, first level trauma care. And so what do they say? You can go to Abortion911 and see this. We just have one that was posted on the 21st of this month, February 21st, 2024, where a Michigan Planned Parenthood requested “no lights, no sirens.” 

Sarah: Mm hmm.

Troy: Okay. Imagine this Sarah, you’re on the operating room table and you’re bleeding out and they call 911. ‘Hey, we need to have you come over here just as quick as you can. But you know what? Don’t make it too quick. Don’t have any lights or sirens, come in the back door. Kind of come in low key, because we don’t want our reputation damaged – and we certainly don’t want the likes of Life Dynamics or Operation Rescue getting this 911 call and posting it up on the internet, because that gives us a bad name.’

Sarah: Well, and this is not an isolated incident. One of the things that I discovered that was just shocking to me, and I guess it shouldn’t be, is how many times these clinics ask for no lights, no sirens, because they’re afraid of the way it looks.

Troy: Mm hmm.

Sheila: They don’t want ambulances showing up outside of abortion clinics time after time. You know, they don’t want people seeing that.

Troy: Well, can you imagine, there’s a local outpatient surgery clinic. And they’re everywhere, right? You could drive down there and see them all over the place. People are getting, you know, minor surgeries. I mean, I think colonoscopy because I recently had one. Not fun, by the way.

(laughter)

Sarah: Yeah, I can imagine.

Troy: But you know what? When they wheel you in there and they give you the Vicodin to put you out or get you in twilight sleep, you look up on the wall, there’s oxygen connected to the wall. They’ve got a defibrillator. They’ve got, you know, all those instruments to bring you back to life in the rare case something happens. Now, can you imagine these local outpatient surgery centers having an ambulance show up there three, four times a month with lights and sirens and wheeling people off and then carting them in? Our office here, like I said, is an abortion clinic is located just right across the street from a major hospital in Wichita, Kansas.

Sarah: Mm hmm.

Troy: And there’s ambulances going in there all the time.

Sheila: Right.

Troy: And you think, ‘oh, that was a car accident.’ ‘Someone had a cardiac arrest.’ I always, you know, just pray whenever I see an ambulance running down the road with lights and sirens running, just pray for that person that’s obviously in distress. But can you imagine the uproar of the other people going there for normal procedures, when they would see this ambulance coming in day after day? That’s what we see. Like so-called “Hope Clinic” in Illinois, right across the border from St. Louis. We were able to completely eradicate abortion out of Missouri and close down the Planned Parenthood there. But now right across the river, just a few miles away, is this Hope Clinic. I call it the Hopeless Clinic – which is run by Julie Burkhardt, who’s the former assistant to George Tiller out of Wichita, Kansas here. She’s got no medical training. Of course, she owns an abortion clinic. She’s selling abortions. They got a product to sell. And when you’re a hammer, everything is a nail, right? 

Sarah: Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Troy: When you’re an abortion clinic, everything is fixed by an abortion. ‘You need an abortion!’ ‘Oh, you can’t see straight? Get an abortion. Your feet are swelling? Get an abortion. Oh, you’re overweight? Get an abortion.’

Sarah: ‘Oh, but she’s bleeding. Oh, that can’t be from the abortion.’ 

Troy: No. Oh, no, no, no, no, no. You’re right. The same people that sell abortion as health care, that it’s healthier than taking vitamins every morning, drinking your water, is having abortions. ‘The healthiest thing you can do for the planet, reduce your carbon footprint, kill that baby.’ But as soon as they cause a complication – I mentioned this Hope Clinic, three women with hemorrhages were recorded just in December 2023. Three! Again, this is just from the outside looking in. These aren’t the women that go home and have complications, these are the ones with emergency, emergency complications where they’ve got to call 911. How do we know? Because we get the 911 calls and we publish them.

Sarah: But not always. Sometimes they fight you, right? Or drag their feet.

Troy: Oh gosh. See, Illinois and St. Louis are classic examples, L.A.’s another one, New York’s another one. I think what’s going on, I can’t prove it –

Sarah: Abortion havens.

Troy: – they’re abortion havens but, and Mark talked quite a bit about this, the first thing that they do when they open up an abortion clinic is these guys go to the local authorities.

Sarah: Mm hmm.

Troy: They may go to the police, the city council, whatever. In this case, they probably go to the emergency services, which is usually run by the fire department, generally speaking. And they say, ‘Hey, when these anti-choice fanatics come in and ask for these 911 calls, don’t give it to them. Stonewall them in every way we could.’ And we, I think we recorded something like 60 of these ambulance runs from the Planned Parenthood Clinic in St. Louis – and we had to sue the city to get these 911 calls. We didn’t get them all.

Sarah: Really?

Sheila: Wow.

Troy: But here’s what I want you to do. Next time you get your cell phone bill, God forbid anybody actually has a landline anymore –

(laughter)

Sarah: Yeah.

Troy: – but get your cell phone bill, and I want you to go through it line by line. Other than the tax, tax, the tax, the tax, tax, and tax, and tax fee, you’re going to see a little thing down there, “911.” You’re paying for these. You’re paying for the emergency services, for these to be recorded. And you know, whenever there’s some big mass shooting or something like that, the news media gets that 911 call in about a millisecond.

Sarah: Oh, yeah.

Sheila: Right.

Troy: Sometimes it takes us months and months, and threatening letters from our legal representatives to get these 911 calls. A lot of times they’re over redacted.

Sarah: Heavily redacted.

Troy: Oh yeah, it’ll be like, ‘hi, this is beeeeeeeep. I’m calling from beeeeeeeep.’

Sarah: And then you’ll hear a goodbye.

(laughter)

Troy: And we have a beeeeeeeeeeeep. Okay, we’re on our way.’

Sarah & Troy: ‘Beeeeeeeeeep.’

Sarah: Yeah. And the thing is, if abortion is so safe, if abortion is no big deal then why do they drag their feet in these places over 911 tapes? Shouldn’t there be just like one call that happens, right, because abortion is so safe?

Troy: Right, right. Well see, one of our pushes has been, I always call it the Operation Rescue Law. And I dug it up out of Missouri, and we were able to pass it down in Mississippi and other places. We actually passed it in Texas, HB 2, years ago and it wasn’t argued right before the Supreme Court. But the two things I wanted is, number one for an abortionist to have hospital privileges in the local hospital within 30 mile radius of that abortion clinic.

Sheila: That’s something they always, always fight.

Sarah: Mm hmm. Because they can’t get it.

Troy: They always fight it because abortionists are not wanted in the general medical community – that’s why abortion is rarely practiced in normal hospital like settings.

Sheila: Right.

Sarah: And if you want to get like the best reactions about abortionists, ask somebody in the medical community who works in the emergency rooms.

Sheila: Right.

Troy: Exactly. No, 100%. And we can go off on another tangent on the abortion pill, because they’re just giving these pills and say, ‘Hey, you know, this is like taking a Pez candy and you’ll be all fine next week.’ No. Guess what? A lot of times they’re hemorrhaging and the complication is through the roof, and the Supreme Court’s going to be hearing that later this year.

Sheila: Mm hmm.

Troy: But these emergency room doctors, oftentimes very very pro-life, they’re stuck with the complications of not only a surgical abortion, but the medical abortions as well.

Sheila: Right.

Sarah: Even if you’re pro-choice – say you’re pro-choice, and you’re sitting there and these women come in night after night, day after day, from these horrific abortion complications. You have to imagine that that makes an impact on you. Unless you’re just so callous that you have no soul, you know, that’s going to leave an impact on you and make you think, well, maybe I need to reconsider my position on all this.

Troy: And I’ll tell you, and this is where the government comes in and is really quashing the outcry. You know, doctors are licensed by the state and they can have their license taken in any moment for any precarious or capricious reason. Remember back when doctors were prescribing, God forbid, ivermectin to help or have any sort of protocol for COVID?

Sheila: Right.

Troy: As soon as they speak out and they say, ‘Hey, I’ve experienced X number of abortion complications in my emergency room position,’ they’ll be thrown out of that emergency room, they’ll lose their license or their license will be in jeopardy. The government then comes in, hides the details on these autopsy results where the woman may have died. I remember Kristen Gilbert died from heart failure, and she was a late term abortion here in Wichita, Kansas. Took us eight months to get the autopsy results, it was the longest autopsy in the history of the state of Kansas, right in front of a poor kid that died on a football field from cardiac arrest – just took them forever to figure out what caused his death. But we knew it caused Kristen Gilbert’s death, it was an abortion!

Sheila: Right.

Sarah: Yeah.

Troy: And in the autopsy result, it was so whitewashed – it didn’t say abortion clinic, didn’t say where, and said she died from a heart failure . Well yeah, when you die your heart stops.

Sarah: Yeah.

Troy: Okay. But when you read the whole thing, you know, they fancied it up with a lot of clinical language. She hemorrhaged! She hemorrhaged to death because her uterus was perforated by George Tiller and Leroy Carhartt, both of them now deceased. And she bled out because they punctured a uterine artery and she bled to death.

Sarah: Well, I would think that any legitimate medical person who was looking at that autopsy would ask the question, ‘Okay, what is a seemingly young and healthy person suddenly go into cardiac arrest,’ right? They ask these questions. 

Troy: Exactly.

Sarah: And that’s what these autopsies are supposed to tell you.

Troy: I have made it kind of my job, if you will, to be a quasi-autopsy expert. Because I wanted to see, compare some other autopsies. So I’ve actually read Whitney Houston’s autopsy. I read that kid that was shot in Florida’s autopsy. I read Michael Jackson’s autopsy- these become very public. And believe it or not, you actually have no right to privacy under HIPAA once you’re dead.

Sarah: Yeah.

Troy: So if they’re doing an autopsy, you’re full autopsy is out there. And it’s interesting when you read these, they’ll say, ‘Hey, the decedent was found lying on her bed, face down. She’s got a tattoo on her ankle of this. She had this, this, and this in her system.’

Sarah: Mm hmm.

Troy: There’s, I mean, some details you probably don’t want ever, ever made public because they’re very private.

Sheila: Right.

Troy: They’re analyzing your dead body and everything that has gone on in your medical history, all of the toxins that are in your body, all of your scars and everything else. And it’s all there. And if you have a tattoo, the exact wording of your tattoo is written on the autopsy.

(laughter)

Sarah: Yeah.

Troy: It is! It is! I’ve read them. And I didn’t realize that Whitney Houston had tattoos, but she did. And so now you go over, and I start looking at the same autopsy of a different person, but this person died from an abortion. And highly redacted, highly politicized, the word abortion never used.

Sarah: Sanitized.

Troy: That’s a better word. Completely sanitized.

Sarah: Sanitized.

Troy: Sanitized. Yeah.

Sheila: And that’s how it is with like long term abortion complications as well. Even if the woman doesn’t die, but has complications later on in life because of her having an abortion, they don’t say she’s having these complications because of an abortion – it’s for some other reason that they try to come up with.

Troy: Mm hmm.

Sarah: The thing that bothers me the most when the pro-choicers talk about how abortion is so safe, is that, I mean, you look around for reporting on everything – the CDC watches stuff, you talk about like deaths from smoking cigarettes. But the moment it comes to abortion, it’s oh all these injuries and deaths [reporting] they’re voluntary. Some states don’t even take it. Some states collect the most basic of information. There’s no standard and there’s no actual watching to see how safe it is – because they know it’s not.

Troy: Well, Sarah, just let’s go back to COVID just a few years ago where there was a guy that died from a motorcycle accident, and his first cause of death was listed as COVID.

Sheila: Right.

Troy: He had COVID and he crashed, therefore he died of COVID.

Sheila: Yeah, I remember that.

Troy: And that happened all the time. People that were elderly, people that were obese, people that had all these, you know, underlying complications and if they’d just got a cold, they would have probably wound up dead. But with abortion, it’s the exact reverse. They will never mention it.

Sarah: Yeah.

Troy: Unless they’re forced to. I remember back in the days when we were investigating Kristen Gilbert’s death. We’re waiting for the CDC to come out and report on abortion. And I think that year they had two deaths from abortion directly, and we reported on both of them.

Sarah: Wow. Yeah.

Troy: We reported on both of them and I will guarantee you, had we not made such a huge public outcry that both these women died from complications of abortion –

Sarah: It would have been zero. Yeah.

Troy: – they never. It would have been zero. And you’ll see that year after year. But if you go to Abortion911. com, you will see one after another, after another, after another botched abortions, and sometimes we find out that the woman died. A lot of times we don’t know if the women have died, because again, they whitewash it so much. I could do a FOIA request tomorrow on everybody in Illinois say that died from an abortion, it would come back and say zero. Zero. Oh, what about women? We do sometimes do [request] an age, like say from 16 to 35, you know, childbearing age or something like that, that, dah, dah, dah, dah, dah. And then you get, you know, all of these autopsies and you start going through them and go, ‘Oh wait a minute. This one probably died from abortion. This one definitely died from abortion, et cetera.’

Sarah: Yeah.

Troy: So it’s definitely whitewashed.

Sarah: Well, and I think people really need to go read Lime 5, because Mark reported on this because they were studying deaths from abortion. And they would get the official statistics from the government and then they would have their own stuff that they had found and they would find that the numbers were vastly different. They had found cases that the government never even admitted to.

Troy: Correct.

Sheila: And states don’t even truly report about the numbers.

Troy: No. No.

Sarah: One thing I wanted to bring up with you, Troy, that I noticed and we have heard happening, is where when these abortion clinics call 911, there will be times where they will request a certain hospital and it will not be the one that is close. It’ll often be the ones that’s the farthest away.

Troy: Correct.

Sarah: And I don’t think people understand the reason for that.

Troy: Yeah, so again, I bring up the “Hopeless” Abortion Mill that’s located in Illinois – Granite City, Illinois. Okay, they have hospitals very close to where this abortion mill is. But they transport them across the river several miles away to another hospital located in Missouri. Why would they do that? Because that’s where a lot of these Ryan residency program people, these abortionists that are learning to be abortionists. Paid for by Warren Buffett and other big name people, they’re trying to fill up all the vacant seats of the abortionists from around the country and train them how to be abortionists. And so they have a little secret handshake club there where they cover this up and they sanitize it. And if a woman does die, then all the powers that be inside that hospital…

University of New Mexico is another classic example where women could be brought from Southwest Women’s Option to an emergency room right across the street. Instead, they’re brought over to the University of New Mexico for them to be patched up or bagged up, it’s first time I’ve used that in a sentence, and the whole report sanitized. And then to add insult to injury here, okay, there’s still a huge stigma for women who’ve had an abortion, for the women who’ve had it that are injured, or sometimes the family. How would you like to be the family of a deceased young lady who died from an abortion?

Sheila: Right.

Troy: I remember Laura Hope Smith up in Hyannis, Massachusetts was killed by Rapino Santhanhan. Same story, he didn’t have any resuscitation equipment. He had, you know, shoddy ability of doing medicine. And by the way, these abortionists never or very rarely go to school to become an abortionist.

Sheila: Right.

Troy: They sink to that level, you know? At least you could be a podiatrist or something like that.

(laughter)

Troy: No, when you can’t even take care of hangnails on your toes, you become an abortionist. And that’s what Ropino Santhanhan did and he killed Laura Hope Smith. Fortunately, Eileen Smith, great Christian family… And her fiance was deployed, I think to Afghanistan and Iraq and she got pregnant on one of his home visits. She was so ashamed, she went and had an abortion and she was killed. And it was very, very disturbing for Eileen, but she stood up and she took on the abortion industry. She sued him. We were able to get some very private depositions of the nurses that testified against Rupin and he went to jail.

Sarah: Mm hmm.

Troy: He went to jail for a couple of years. He lost his whole medical license, sold the “medical practice.” But the majority of the families that we’re in contact with are so ashamed. They would rather hang their head for it never to be brought to light, never bring an action against the abortion cartel, and suffer in silence.

Sarah: It takes a lot of courage and a lot of steel. Reminds me of Deborah Cardamone, who we had the pleasure of meeting. And, you know, we have the Safe & Legal brochure, but what I don’t think people understand is that she came to Mark. We had the autopsy photos of Marla. And she came to Mark and she said, ‘I want you to do something with them. I want you to help women not make the same choice so they can be saved from this.’ And, you know, we created the Safe & Legal brochure. It’s hard to look at. And I’m sure as a mom, these photos being out there of your child like this, it’s hard. But she came and did an interview – very emotional interview which we can provide the link for – and she encouraged us to get these out because she knew the power that these images could have.

Troy: Mm hmm.

Sarah: And if it could save even one woman, then it would be worth it.

Troy: Yes. Yeah, and to remind people, Marla was killed in a “safe and legal” abortion. And in her autopsy, they took pictures. And we can rarely get pictures. We can get the autopsy report, we can rarely, rarely get pictures. But Deborah, her mom, was able to get those pictures and delivered them to Life Dynamics and Mark, and worked with them to produce that brochure. And I’ve seen it all – I think sometimes I think I’ve seen it all. I’ve held babies that we’ve dug out of trash cans, I’ve seen the autopsy photos. But seeing a woman that was beautiful and vibrant and, you know, amazing in all respects on one side of the brochure, and seeing her cold, colorless, lifeless, marred body on a cold, stainless steel table in the next photo, it’ll shock you into reality. And it’s shameful, on another hand to bring up another subject, that the majority of the pro-life movement is more interested in being liked by the abortion industry, then they are willing to show what abortion really does to these women and to the babies to win this battle.

We have the tools that we need, right now, to win this battle. If every pro-life organization would start talking about what we’re talking about here, showing the graphic images of what abortion does to the baby, talk about the abortionists raping women on the operating room table. Showing them what Gosnell did, what Brian Finkel did to women, what Rapinoe Santhanhan did to women, what all these people did – if we would simply talk about, show the pictures, we could win this battle and wrap it up.

Sarah: Talking about these autopsy photos or like the photos of the aborted babies, stuff like that, you know, I know they’re hard to look at and it’s for a reason.

Troy: They should be.

Sarah: They should be. If we find that they’re not hard to look at, then that should concern us.

Sheila: Mm hmm.

Sarah: But you know, I get why people naturally draw back a little bit. But the question these people need to be asking themselves is, why are these pictures offensive? If abortion is no big deal, if this is not the taking of the life of a human being, then it should not be so offensive. If the reason why you and everyone else is getting mad is because it is exposing your conscience.

Troy: If your heart isn’t broken when you see a picture of Marla Cardamone or a aborted baby, then you have no heart. Get a pulse meter out. Get your blood pressure checked, because you might not have a heart. It should be disturbing because abortion is disturbing. And unfortunately more people are concerned about the feelings of live women than they are the death of innocent children.

Sarah: Well, I would argue that, are you really doing a service to women who are alive if you’re not telling the truth to them? It doesn’t mean you have to be a jerk to them. It doesn’t mean you have to be rude. Jesus brought truth to people. He wasn’t mean. He didn’t shout at them, but he brought them truth. And I think you do a bigger disservice to people if you lie to them, then if you tell them the truth politely. But tell them the truth.

Troy: Right. Well, there’s an old saying, and Mark and I would use this all the time is, “if you want to make a conservative mad, lie to them. If you want to make a liberal mad, tell them the truth.”

Sarah: Yeah.

(laughter)

Sarah: That’s good. That’s very good.

Sheila: That’s exactly right.

Sarah: Well I mean, we covered so much. We could keep going for like 45 hours on this stuff. I mean I have notes and tapes and stuff we never even got to.

Troy: Well, let’s schedule a part two, three, and four. I’d love to come back on your podcast anytime. You’re carrying on the legacy of Mark and that makes me proud. And I really appreciate you ladies.

Sarah: Well, we appreciate your work. And I’m just gonna give people the url for your website [again], I want them to go check it out. So Abortion 911.com is one, OperationRescue.org – go see all this information. And if you have not, absolutely read Lime 5.

Sheila: Right.

Sarah: There’s a lot of eye opening information in there. And combined, I mean, this shows the truth about abortion and what it does to women. Thank you so much for joining us, Troy. We really appreciate it.

Sheila: Thank you.

Sarah: We hope to have you on again soon.

Troy: It’s my pleasure and an honor – it really is. Thank you so much.

Sarah: Thank you for being here, Troy. Bye bye.

Sheila: Well, like you said, we could keep on going and going and going, but people just need to know that abortion isn’t so called safe like the abortion industry wants people to think. And this week’s From the Mouth of Mark goes over that abortion isn’t healthcare, and it also relates to the new Abortion Distortion video, talking about taxpayer funding of abortion as well. And so this week’s From the Mouth of Mark is from the blog post, “How The Game is Played,” which was posted November 2nd, 2009.

So he wrote, “The generally accepted understanding is that the word healthcare relates to the prevention and or treatment of illness, injury, and disease. Of course, pregnancy is none of these. Beyond that, according to the abortion industry’s own statistics, almost every elective abortion in America is done for a non-medical reason on a healthy baby, and a healthy mother whose pregnancy poses no threat to her physical well being. What all this means is that, by definition, abortion cannot logically be considered health care. But despite this, and despite the abortion lobby’s, often repeated chant that abortion is none of the government’s business, they want the government to pay for them. Somehow, the right to choose mysteriously evaporates when it comes to buying abortions for other people.”

Sarah: Yep, absolutely.

Sheila: And also, you talked about resources that people should check out, they should also check out The Life Dynamics website, the “About Abortion” section.

Sarah: Oh yeah, lots of good information there.

Sheila: They can learn more about complications of abortion, there’s an animated video that they can watch. I mean, there’s so many complications and issues with the abortion industry. People just need to check it out.

Sarah: Absolutely. Well, thank you so much for joining us this week. I really encourage everybody to listen to our next episode that will be coming out. We’ll have a very important announcement for that one. And, until then…

Sheila: Life Dynamics is not here to put up a good fight.

Sarah: No, we’re here to win.

Sheila: Because winning is how the killing stops.

Sarah: Thank you again for joining us, everyone.

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